One Piece Chapter 864 Discussion

Isterio said:
This chapter was a piece of shit! Utter timewaste for the sole purpose of artifically extending the story. Oda must have taken notes from Toei. This was horseshit and the fanbase schuld not encourage it!

MoonStar9 said:
That Djinn Devil Fruit was so badass. Judge crying like a bitch... And I always wondered what Judge's relationship with his children were like. Did they, despite being uncaring human beings, respect and love their father? I'm assuming they have the same programming Reiju has that prevents them from disobeying him but we haven't really had any pure display of their relationship.

Isterio said:


What opens a big gaping plothole in this bullshit "no emotions" plotline is the fact that those guys can feel selfishness.

How do they work. IF their behaviour would be based on rationality they wouldn´t be the bumbling idiots they are. If it was based on instinct that includes sex drive they wouldn´t have the hots for Nami alone, basicly having a preference in women based on character, nor would they feel uncomfortable eating screaming food.

It´s bullshit convenience at it´s finest and doesn´t make a lick of sense.

MoonStar9 said:


They also feel joy and anger as shown during Sanji's flashback when they happily tormented him and were visibly upset by the kindness he showed to animals, as well as lusting over Nami. Also, Reiju contradicted herself about not being able to disobey her father as she is shown not only freeing Sanji from his cell and putting on fake handcuffs on him instead of the real explosive ones Judge ordered her, but she also went against her father's wishes by keeping the wedding massacre a secret. Still, considering the major plot holes and plot-induced-stupidity we've seen in this arc already, the aforementioned are mere nitpicks by comparison. I'm already resigned to the fact that Whole Cake Island is a badly-written arc with nonsensical characters. I could go on all day about them. I'm just enjoying the spectacle of the wedding now.

Isterio said:


What opens a big gaping plothole in this bullshit "no emotions" plotline is the fact that those guys can feel selfishness.

How do they work. IF their behaviour would be based on rationality they wouldn´t be the bumbling idiots they are. If it was based on instinct that includes sex drive they wouldn´t have the hots for Nami alone, basicly having a preference in women based on character, nor would they feel uncomfortable eating screaming food.

It´s bullshit convenience at it´s finest and doesn´t make a lick of sense.

Dahaka_ said:

I think it was stated that they do not feel empathy rather than all emotions.

So Oda either made a horrible mistake this chapter, or they have some plan or an ace up their sleeve.
I mean, Judge knows them, and he still finds it surprising they they're just laughing the whole situation off.

Imo they're hiding something, and Reiju's comment was just her making a mental shortcut and not realizing that it is weird for them to act like that. Or the MS fucked up the translations.

Taito10 said:
Sanji wants save his rotten family and even he forgave the woman who wanted to kill him. I dont even....

2/5

Germa is waste of pages. Pathetic family.

Isterio said:

It´s stated multiple times that they have no emotions. The word empathy was never used and while I am willing to brush that off as a translation error, I do not see your prediction coming true at all.

There were never any hints towards the fact that anyone from Germa is the least bit capable considering the fact that it is confirmed that they couldn´t even conquer North Blue by themselves. Judging from the implications Oda has given us to understand, The Vinsmokes have been big fish in a small pond.

You distribute yet again, exactly the problem I have, regardless of the outcome, you will sit there and consider the outcome at least decent even if it completely betrayed your expectations. Where do you draw the line and call bullshit?

What if Kid never recovers from his loss?
What if Oda subtly told us that the bounties of the Super Nova were red herrings and the truth is that Luffy and Law are topdogs alongside Urouge, but Kid is the opposite? Not saying he´s weak , but people have build the guy up without any feats to back him up. What if turns out to be a lowtier among the supernova?

What if Shanks after 1000 chapters of serialization gets a one chapter fight?
Would this be sartisfying? What if Shanks gets killed off screen?
Is this epic too? Because we get a Luffy vs Shanks killer showdown?

When does Oda ever dissapoint you? When is it his fault and not the translators, or the characters, or the audiences?

Dahaka_ said:

I'm just reluctant to constantly jump the gun every week like you do. I play the devil's advocate until the very end, but once there is no way to fix something(usually end of the arc) I'm always ready to point out what's shit in my opinion. I made plenty of posts criticizing the weak points of FI, PH and DR. But I'm a person that needs to have the whole picture before I start throwing shit all around. Too many timed have I seen people writing long paragraphs about some seemingly shitty decision Oda made only to see the same person admitting the very next week that it actually wasn't that bad, and Oda did ok in fixing it (and that includes you. I don't remember what about exactly, so don't ask).

I see no point in criticizing only pieces of the whole.

MoonStar9 said:
Still, considering the major plot holes and plot-induced-stupidity we've seen in this arc already, the aforementioned are mere nitpicks by comparison. I'm already resigned to the fact that Whole Cake Island is a badly-written arc with nonsensical characters. I could go on all day about them. I'm just enjoying the spectacle of the wedding now.

PirateKingJJ said:
New sons of the Charlotte family were introduced, and they seem to have some interesting powers like the heat-heat fruit, which is pretty much the same the flare-flare fruit I guess except fruit eater cannot produce flames, but instead can increase the temperature of certain things. That is probably the power.

Isterio said:


The same people who proclaimed how Rebecca might have been a victim of rape.
Let that sink in. People thought that Oda would put the subject of "rape" into the narrative of One Piece. This is the level of delusion the average One Piece fan exhibits, so excuse me if I´m a little dissapointed in the opinions of my peers.

The10tailedwolf said:


You had me going up till the rape part... 'Let that sink in' -____- This is literally the first time in 13 YEARS I've ever seen/heard any OP fanbase (on ANY forum), seriously use the word 'rape' within the Onepiece context. Anyone seriously claiming (and not in actuality trolling you) that Rebecca is a rape victim, is clearly NOT the average OP fan, but instead an extreme outlier. Likewise people who share/dose similar things in this nature, or have this sort of mentality to twist and turn stories so out of proportions... usually have another hidden agenda up their selves, which they will likely benefit from when creating a problem where there is none. But for you to actually believe in this non-sense, means you must either be a little naive, or somewhat delusional yourself.

The AVERAGE fan watch the dressrosa arc, and their take home was... Rebecca might be a rape victim lol PLEASE someone make an actual poll stating this question!

SuperRed said:


What parts or characters do you think had bad writing in this arc? I'm curious.

MajinAkuma said:

The fourth son with the heat power... wasn't there the filler Don character who had the same devil fruit powers? The guy who was obsessed with stealing pirate flags.

MoonStar9 said:


Ok, let's start with Big Mom's plan to assassinate the Vinsmokes. Why? Why the hell would she plot to assassinate such useful collaborators? She wants their technology and their army to become Pirate King and they want to be under her wing to overthrow the powers in North Blue. There's a mutual benefit from the political marriage of their children so why plot to assissinate them? We've already been shown she's conducted political marriages before with partners with far less to offer her than the Vinsmokes so why is she refusing to do so this time? She believes killing the Vinsmokes will give her access to both their tech and their soldiers but where is the logic in killing off the Vinsmoke to obtain technology you have no idea of how to use? Furthermore, technology is not stagnant so why would you kill off the Vinsmokes and erase their scientific minds alongside them? The Vinsmoke children are also stronger than the Germa army so why would you kill them off to obtain lesser soldiers? Would it not make sense to study the Vinsmokes as well to bioengineer her own offsprings? The Germa soldiers are also bioenginered to be subservient to the Vinsmokes to the point of being selflessly being meat shields so how does she propose to gain their loyalty? It's not like Sanji has a say in the marriage either so even if Pudding was too valuable to give over to the Vinsmokes she could have simply offered another daughter. She as a Yonko should know its better to use people than to simply kill them off, that's exactly what she has been doing with her political marriages so it comes as quite a break in her character to want to kill the Vinsmokes.

Big Mom stupidly orders the SHs to be captured alive instead of having them killed or driven out like with Urouge. Pudding reveals that the SHs and everybody Sanji loved would be killed after the wedding anyway so why did she order them to be captured alive in the first place? Why not kill them then and there and ensure your evil plan succeeds without errors?

Big Mom is also an idiot for not only accepting Capone, the man notorious for murdering the Head of prestigous gangs for the lols, into her family but also giving him control of security no less.

Capone is an idiot for attempting to kill Big Mom during a wedding ceremony when all her children would be in her immediate vicinity, along with her crewmembers, allies, and a son who can predict the future! What could go wrong?
Why could he not simply schedule a meeting with her in private and do it then? She met with Bobbin and Caesar in private, didn't she? Why could he simply bring her something to eat, wait until she opened her mouth and then had his crew fire the poison from inside his body?

And then there's Bobbin the idiot who for no apparent reason put all his own men who wanted to help search for Sanji to sleep to go chase him down by himself, only to be gunned down by Capone's gang.

Opera the idiot lies to his family about killing the SHs after their escape from Mont d'Or's book following the logic that he doesn't want to get punished. How is that saving him? This only makes this worse as it endagers the Vinsmoke massacre plot and ensures he will be held accountable for lying.

In a castle with countless rooms some idiot decides to take a nap in Sanji bed which then leads the guards to believe it's Sanji in the bed and everything is going according to plan.

The SHs are rumoured to have escaped and nobody thought to contact Brulee, the woman who has access to any room with a mirror on Totland, who has been missing since yesterday.

Pudding not only goes into the cage to gloat about the upcoming massacre to the SHs thereby endagering the plan for no damn reason. Didn't even bother to erase their memories.

MoonStar9 said:

MoonStar9 said:
Big Mom stupidly orders the SHs to be captured alive instead of having them killed or driven out like with Urouge. Pudding reveals that the SHs and everybody Sanji loved would be killed after the wedding anyway so why did she order them to be captured alive in the first place? Why not kill them then and there and ensure your evil plan succeeds without errors?

MoonStar9 said:
Big Mom is also an idiot for not only accepting Capone, the man notorious for murdering the Head of prestigous gangs for the lols, into her family but also giving him control of security no less.

MoonStar9 said:
Capone is an idiot for attempting to kill Big Mom during a wedding ceremony when all her children would be in her immediate vicinity, along with her crewmembers, allies, and a son who can predict the future! What could go wrong?
Why could he not simply schedule a meeting with her in private and do it then? She met with Bobbin and Caesar in private, didn't she? Why could he simply bring her something to eat, wait until she opened her mouth and then had his crew fire the poison from inside his body?

MoonStar9 said:
And then there's Bobbin the idiot who for no apparent reason put all his own men who wanted to help search for Sanji to sleep to go chase him down by himself, only to be gunned down by Capone's gang.

MoonStar9 said:
Opera the idiot lies to his family about killing the SHs after their escape from Mont d'Or's book following the logic that he doesn't want to get punished. How is that saving him? This only makes this worse as it endagers the Vinsmoke massacre plot and ensures he will be held accountable for lying.

MoonStar9 said:
In a castle with countless rooms some idiot decides to take a nap in Sanji bed which then leads the guards to believe it's Sanji in the bed and everything is going according to plan.

MoonStar9 said:
The SHs are rumoured to have escaped and nobody thought to contact Brulee, the woman who has access to any room with a mirror on Totland, who has been missing since yesterday.

MoonStar9 said:
Pudding not only goes into the cage to gloat about the upcoming massacre to the SHs thereby endagering the plan for no damn reason. Didn't even bother to erase their memories.

TheCommonMan1 said:


This one is easy.

1) She has Ceasar Clown, who was a former colleague and rival of Dr. Vegapunk, who Judge was also a colleague of. Judge's cloning technology is based on the work him and Vegapunk worked on together. Why would she need Judge and his children when she has someone who has worked with both him and Vegapunk and can possibly know how to use the cloning machine and reprogram the clones into obeying her?

TheCommonMan1 said:
2) Her men recreated the lab from Punk Hazard. She may not have any scientific expertise, but she does have the power to provide the resources and the people to replicate Judge's technology and advancements.

TheCommonMan1 said:

This one is also easy.

Big Mom wanted the get information out of them. You can't get info out of a dead man(unless said dead man is Brook). The SHs have met Lola. Big Mom knows this, so she wanted to talk with them and ordered Opera the extract the information out of them and then kill them afterwards.

TheCommonMan1 said:

You have a 1 point, now.

Maybe she didn't know. Maybe Capone's infamous history is known in West Blue, only. But, that's very unlikely. If she did know, whatever Capone did to gain her trust must have really impressed her like how she was impressed at Pedro. She planned to reduce Pedro's years by 60 after being annoyed by Pekoms' crying but changed it to 50 and let him go after she became impressed with Pedro ripping out his own eyes. We know that Big Mom is negotiable, so Capone must have offered or done something that impressed her to let him in her crew. Over time, that trust kept growing as he succeeded in jobs Big Mom has given him, even giving him her daughter after a while. Still, it was a bad move on her part, but not one that makes her out of character.

TheCommonMan1 said:


You said it yourself. Capone kills the heads of gangs for the LOLZ. He's done this kind of stunt for YEARS and enjoys seeing the reactions and power struggle of the subordinates after he kills their boss and the thrill of being chased by them and killing them off, and what better way to get the most out of the subordinates reaction and out of the thrill of the hunt than by killing the head in front of all her subordinates while blatantly giving a middle finger to all their efforts that were in vain.

TheCommonMan1 said:


He probably didn't want Big Mom to be disappointed on the big day of the ceremony or, like @tkrisz2 pointed out, wanted the credit all to himself, so he knocked out the guards to prevent them from telling Big Mom and his other siblings.

TheCommonMan1 said:


It was a bad move on his part, but I don't see it as plot-induced stupidity. You guys already know how Big Mom treats her kids, and the relationship they have with each other. If Opera was more loyal, he would have told Big Mom about the jailbreak, but, since he's not, he's only looking out for himself. He doesn't want to deal with his family's wrath, especially Big Mom's wrath. Yeah, it was stupid, but that felt like part of his character than pis.

TheCommonMan1 said:


Eh, I don't get this. It's not plot-based stupidity because we barely know the guy. He is an idiot, but it's probably because he's stupid to begin with.

TheCommonMan1 said:


Yeah, you could say that it's plot-induced stupidity, but keep in mind that Brulee's mirror world is like a huge canyon maze. She may have to come to you in order to talk to her. If they tried, they would have to find her, which will be difficult to do because she's on patrol duty and could be next to any mirror in the country.

TheCommonMan1 said:


You have 2 points, now.

Yeah, I felt something iffy at that part. It's not plot-induced stupidity, but it's something close. Oda I know you wanted to show us Pudding's nature as a hoe, but couldn't she wait to gloat until mommy gets what she wants? At least, we know that she likes to mentally torture her enemies before their doom. Then again, seeing how certain events occurred after Pudding and Straw Hat's conversation, it really doesn't matter if she did told them. Sanji found out on his own what a hoe she is, so her telling Straw Hat that she's going to kill Sanji wouldn't change a thing. Still, she created a huge risk to Big Mom's plans by revealing info like that and it's bad practice.