| i say anime in general is style over substance anyway like one of the main reason we like anime is because of its anime style in presentation and visuals so i do not see any big deal in saying style over substance so how about you? this thread is inspired by the recent Cyberpunk Edgerunners anime that is criticize as style over substance show by some |
| I love how everybody shits on Imaishi for making good looking shows lol. It's just KlK or TTGL all over again. People need to realize Imaishi isn't going to make the arthouse show of their dreams. He's not Anno or Oshii or Ikuhara, and I'm glad about that lol. Now I see no reason to complain about someone making cool-looking and not dumb shows, when 80% of the releases are disgusting and dumb slide shows. Ibelieve Imaishi's strength is exactly that, his ability to appeal to every anime fan WITHOUT sacrificing substance completely. The very varied fans of KlK are a good proof of it. Ecchi shonen fans, Utena fans, NGE fans, they all found something in KlK. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
Deathko said: I love how everybody shits on Imaishi for making good looking shows lol. It's just KlK or TTGL all over again. People need to realize Imaishi isn't going to make the arthouse show of their dreams. He's not Anno or Oshii or Ikuhara, and I'm glad about that lol. Now I see no reason to complain about someone making cool-looking and not dumb shows, when 80% of the releases are disgusting and dumb slide shows. yep i actually read some criticism that Trigger Anime are all style over substance lol sure Imaishi anime will not give you philosophical talks but it sure are wacky and entertaining and fast pace too so never boring |
| I am all for style over substance as long as the creators are aware of that fact. I tend to dislike shows that pretend to be extremely deep and thought provoking when they are actually not that deep at all. Also nice style means that the anime would be more pleasing to my eyes and will be more entertaining so I am all for it. |
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deg said: Deathko said: I love how everybody shits on Imaishi for making good looking shows lol. It's just KlK or TTGL all over again. People need to realize Imaishi isn't going to make the arthouse show of their dreams. He's not Anno or Oshii or Ikuhara, and I'm glad about that lol. Now I see no reason to complain about someone making cool-looking and not dumb shows, when 80% of the releases are disgusting and dumb slide shows. yep i actually read some criticism that Trigger Anime are all style over substance lol sure Imaishi anime will not give you philosophical talks but it sure are wacky and entertaining and fast pace too so never boring I think they do. KlK was a hit because it appealed to many people. Ecchi fans, battle shonen fans, artsy-fartsy fans, almost everybody who loved Utena, people who miss the 70s/80s and the wacky Go Nagai-esque shows of the golden era, the three mecha fans still alive, etc... King_KK said: I am all for style over substance as long as the creators are aware of that fact. I tend to dislike shows that pretend to be extremely deep and thought provoking when they are actually not that deep at all. Also nice style means that the anime would be more pleasing to my eyes and will be more entertaining so I am all for it. I agree with that, and I think Imaishi does the exact opposite, which makes all the bashing pretty annoying. I don't remember P&S, TTGL or KlK trying to pass as ultra-deep philosophical works of fiction, they won't throw the narration in the garbage bin and slap you with 2 last introspective episodes of Shinji crying in his head lol, yet they are a lot less dumb than your average show if you're willing to dig a bit. |
DeathkoSep 15, 2022 9:19 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| This is an Imaishi show?! Change of plans, boiz! |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
 One of us! One of us! One of us! One of us! |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| Most anime have neither and some have both so I don't really get why they're always put up against each other. But anyway, I don't have a problem with shows whose main appeal is the style, otherwise Shaft wouldn't be my favorite studio. In the case of Imaishi/Trigger, I'm not a fan of their style, so this ruins most of their anime for me. I was able to enjoy Kill la Kill because of its substance tho. |
| 1. substance hardly matters if reading a summary or an analysis is more enjoyable than actually watching the anime. 2. a unique style doesn't always correspond to an enjoyable anime; enjoyment comes from a mix of many different factors and it's very subjective. 3. generic high quality animation + subpar writing is not "style over substance". Regarding Cyberpunk Edgerunners, its style is definitely a huge plus but I wouldn't rate that anime higher than 6/10. Would I have liked it more if it had better substance but worse style? Who knows, it depends on how much better substance and how much worse style. |
| I think that the form is just as important as the content, so I like it. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| No, else you get slop like Demon Slayer |
| I think style is very important, especially in visual entertainment. I'd enjoy a basic show that looks very nice (as long as it doesn't have severe narrative issues that really hinder my enjoyment). Deathko said: I agree.I believe Imaishi's strength is exactly that, his ability to appeal to every anime fan WITHOUT sacrificing substance completely. The very varied fans of KlK are a good proof of it. Ecchi shonen fans, Utena fans, NGE fans, they all found something in KlK. What I like about Trigger anime (at least the few I have watched so far) is that they are fun and entertaining while touching upon some very relevant themes. Imo, you can't not be an anime fan and not like at least 1 anime by Trigger. deg said: I have been looking forward to it ever since it was announced, and it's pretty much the only thing I really want to watch from this year (except the Tatami sequel). What's the general verdict on it so far?this thread is inspired by the recent Cyberpunk Edgerunners anime that is criticize as style over substance show by some |
| I still don't understand what substance supposed to mean? Why can the style being the substance? Are people supposed to search the substance when watching sol/cgdct? Just watch you like and drop what you dislike, stop searching for substance. |
| . |
| style is a part of substance, an anime with boring visuals and stilted animation will be less engaging for it. not all art can prioritize all possible facets of expression, but only prioritizing one thing leads to a work that will be inherently lacking. |
elnino02 said: deg said: I have been looking forward to it ever since it was announced, and it's pretty much the only thing I really want to watch from this year (except the Tatami sequel). What's the general verdict on it so far?this thread is inspired by the recent Cyberpunk Edgerunners anime that is criticize as style over substance show by some the score is 8.6 right now so highly rated so far |
| Jesus another thread containing Cyberpunk? Next please. |
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
| It's not bad, but also leaves a lot to be desired. A show with so much style is cool, stylish art and stylish directing is one of the things that can set Anime apart from a book, a movie or a game even, it can be utilized to be unique and bombastic enough to deserve a watch and maybe praise and credit. However it's also a bit of a waste if all that talent and style cool factor goes to waste without anything meaningful to convey or tell. A good show will use its artistic merit and style to further develop its themes, characters or rule of cool, by doing that the style itself stick out even more because now, in addition to its cool factor (Akudama Drive 4/10) and it also gains depth and meaning, making it memorable (Kill La Kill 8/10) and sometimes even legendary (Tatami Galaxy 10/10!). |
| Style is substance. The visual information is one of the most important aspects for a visual medium such as anime - it's always been crazy to me to see people treat it as a superficial or unimportant part. It is literally the identity of pretty much any anime in multiple ways. Visual styles help create the setting, set the tone, provide an atmosphere, and do a lot of storytelling in its own right that can't or shouldn't be explained with words. |
| my only criticism of imaishi is that he can't create something original, all of his anime are copies. but in the end, some of his anime are good, I like klk and gurren lagann but still, would it hurt to make something original for once and stop relying on stuff that were already made and were good enough to be copied? |
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Catalano said: my only criticism of imaishi is that he can't create something original, all of his anime are copies. but in the end, some of his anime are good, I like klk and gurren lagann but still, would it hurt to make something original for once and stop relying on stuff that were already made and were good enough to be copied? What's TTGL and KLK copying? I don't think those seem like knockoffs of anything that I know. |
| Tbh, I'm fine with style over substance. There's several anime that I love mostly for their aesthetic. It's what I love most about anime, I like seeing the art and the visuals, otherwise I'd just rather watch live action. Sure, if the story is bad then the style/visuals will only take you so far but if it's pretty to look at, I can cope with a mediocre story. |
  🔥 🔥 🔥 . 阿良々木 暦, 傷 物 語 . 🔥 🔥 🔥 Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
FallingSn0w said: Catalano said: my only criticism of imaishi is that he can't create something original, all of his anime are copies. but in the end, some of his anime are good, I like klk and gurren lagann but still, would it hurt to make something original for once and stop relying on stuff that were already made and were good enough to be copied? What's TTGL and KLK copying? I don't think those seem like knockoffs of anything that I know. gurren lagann is copying gao gai gar and klk some obscure delinquent shoujo and stuff, I remember seeing it in a video of kenny's. |
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Catalano said: FallingSn0w said: What's TTGL and KLK copying? I don't think those seem like knockoffs of anything that I know. gurren lagann is copying gao gai gar and klk some obscure delinquent shoujo and stuff, I remember seeing it in a video of kenny's. I've seen GaoGaiGar and I definitely disagree. It's absolutely an influence, but saying it's a copy is extremely harsh. GGG has the same sort of green willpower-based energy source thing, and it's almost certainly where Imaishi got the idea for the drill motif as well. But taking a couple of ideas and then expanding on them (especially in a much more meaningful and deeper way, as Imaishi does with TTGL) is not copying, that's just how art works. All art has influences and is built upon other art, nothing is completely and truly "original". Also aside from those elements I mentioned, the plots of the two shows are completely different. |
| Story > style That being said, what’s wrong with sitting back and letting the pretty colors tickle your lizard brain? I also don’t really think this applies to Cyberpunk. The story wasn’t by any means bad, though it definitely suffers from some pacing issues particularly in the latter half. The issue is we always get these contrarians who automatically associate high quality animation with bad writing and it’s a bit tiresome IMO. FallingSn0w said: Catalano said: my only criticism of imaishi is that he can't create something original, all of his anime are copies. but in the end, some of his anime are good, I like klk and gurren lagann but still, would it hurt to make something original for once and stop relying on stuff that were already made and were good enough to be copied? What's TTGL and KLK copying? I don't think those seem like knockoffs of anything that I know. I’ll preface this by saying I like Trigger and Gainax and Imaishi and all those guys, but Gurren Lagann, Kill La Kill, FLCL, and NGE all end with aliens from space trying to take over the world and I would have really preferred if they mixed it up a little. |
-insert NGE meme here- |
Catalano said: FallingSn0w said: What's TTGL and KLK copying? I don't think those seem like knockoffs of anything that I know. gurren lagann is copying gao gai gar and klk some obscure delinquent shoujo and stuff, I remember seeing it in a video of kenny's. I'm pretty sure you're trolling, because I saw Sukeban Deka, and TTGL didn't copy shit from it lol. If anything, Sukeban Deka is part of the inspirations for Utena, and both Sukeban Deka and Utena are parts of the inspirations for KlK. That stops here. Disclaimer: I did not see the live-action Sukeban Deka, which is what the first ED of KlK heavily rips of- I mean, pays hommage to. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
TheMechaManiac said: Deathko said: I love how everybody shits on Imaishi for making good looking shows lol. It's just KlK or TTGL all over again. People need to realize Imaishi isn't going to make the arthouse show of their dreams. He's not Anno or Oshii or Ikuhara, and I'm glad about that lol. Now I see no reason to complain about someone making cool-looking and not dumb shows, when 80% of the releases are disgusting and dumb slide shows. Ibelieve Imaishi's strength is exactly that, his ability to appeal to every anime fan WITHOUT sacrificing substance completely. The very varied fans of KlK are a good proof of it. Ecchi shonen fans, Utena fans, NGE fans, they all found something in KlK. Imaishi is super overrated IMO frankly precisely because he's doing the same style over substance over and over again, yet most Triggerkiddies don't see that and say his stories are... LE BEST. They don't see he's just repetitive. I know, I know, complaining and stuff. But Cyberpunk is waaaaay too overhyped for a show that's carried yet again by the same Kanada-inspired style he's been doing for, what, almost two decades now? Anyway, when it comes to style over substance creators I like creators who can switch between vastly different styles. Anno is a much better style over substance director because he always throws something different into his homages, so it's never the same show. Then you've got some people who most normie anime fans probably haven't heard of, like Toshihiro Hirano, Masami Obari etc. who always subtly change style so the show never feels the same. Are you saying TTGL, P&S, KlK, Dead Leaves, Cyberpunk, Luluco and Promare are stylistically the same? ^_- |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
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